Skill Drain does not work that way (Guide)

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 11:34 pm
Because I'm tired of people not knowing how this particular card works and using it to try and justify using similar cards incorrectly. But the thing is, the similar cards to Skill Drain are only that. SIMILAR. The only thing Skill Drain has in common with any other card that negates monster effects is that it negates monster effects. THAT'S IT. Skill Drain is incomparable to every other Monster Effect negating card in every area except for that one.

The first thing you need to understand that so few people know, and even more will swear up and down that it's not true is that Monster Effects DO NOT MOVE. A monster effect will ALWAYS resolve where that effect was activated, even if the monster that activated that effect is moved to a different location before it's effect resolves.

It's important to note the different between the Text of Skill Drain and other cards.

Skill Drain wrote:Pay 1000 Life Points. As long as this card remains on the field, the effects of all face-up Effect Monsters on the field are negated.

Light-Imprisoning Mirror wrote:When the effect of a LIGHT monster activates on the field or in the Graveyard, negate it.

Shadow-Imprisoning Mirror wrote:When the effect of a DARK monster activates on the field or in the Graveyard, negate it.

Curse Bound Prison wrote:Special Summon 1 Synchro Monster from your Extra Deck in face-up Defense Position. The Special Summoned monster cannot activate its effect(s) and its effect(s) is negated. Also, its Battle Position cannot be changed. When this card is removed from the field, destroy that monster. When that monster is removed from the field, destroy this card.

Junk Synchron wrote:When this card is Normal Summoned, you can Special Summon 1 Level 2 or lower monster from your Graveyard in face-up Defense Position. That monster's effect(s) is negated.

Debris Dragon wrote:When this card is Normal Summoned, you can Special Summon 1 monster with 500 or less ATK from your Graveyard in Attack Position. That monster's effect(s) is negated. This card cannot be used as a Synchro Material Monster, except for the Synchro Summon of a Dragon-Type Synchro Monster. The other Synchro Material Monster(s) cannot be Level 4.


It's kind of hard to tell a difference between Skill Drain and the other cards, but the key thing here is unique to Skill Drain alone. This line
Skill Drain wrote:the effects of all face-up Effect Monsters on the field are negated.

Makes Skill Drain completely unique to the other cards. Keep in mind that none of these cards negates or prevents effect activation. All of them negate the effect at resolution, but ONLY Skill Drain cares where the physical monster is when it's effect resolves.

It's important to know that Monster Effects don't move with the monster because cards like Necro Gardna and Honest move when they activate their effects, and the Imprisoning Mirror cards negate the effects of Dark and Light monsters that resolve in the graveyard.

Necro Gardna has an effect that activates in the graveyard, but it's cost removes it from play, so Necro Gardna itself is no longer in the Graveyard. HOWEVER, just because Necro Gardna moved, doesn't mean the effect did. Necro Gardna's effect activated in the Graveyard, which means it's effect resolves in the Graveyard, so Shadow-Imprisoning Mirror negates it. Necro Gardna's effect does NOT activate in the RFG zone, after it's remove from play. Activation and Cost Payment are simultaneous.

It's pretty much the same thing for Honest. Honest's effect activates in the hand, not in the Graveyard. Because Honest's effect activates in your hand, it's effect resolves in your hand, even though Honest itself is in the Graveyard. Honest's effect does not activate in the Graveyard after you pay it's cost. This means that Light-Imprisoning Mirror cannot negate it.

In the case of Skill Drain and cards like Exiled Force, you need to recall that Skill Drain works a little differently. Skill Drain only cares where the MONSTER is, not the effect. Exiled Force's effect activates on the field, which means it's effect resolves on the field, even though Exiled Force itself is in the Graveyard. Because Exiled Force is not on the field, Skill Drain cannot negate it's effect even though Exiled Force's effect is resolving on the field.

Curse Bound Prison works like Junk Synchron and Debris Dragon. Unlike Skill Drain, they will negate any monster effect that activates on the field, even if the monster is removed from the field. They're similar to the Imprisoning Mirrors in this regard. The only time Prison/Junk/Debris won't negate the effect of their respective monsters is when the effect of their monster activates in the Graveyard. Cards like Dandylion for Debris Dragon, Tuningware for Junk Synchron, and Black Brutdrago for Curse Bound Prison.

I hope this guide cleared some things up.

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Adendum: How Forbidden Chalice/Effect Veiler affects cards like Barbaros and Naturia Bambooshoot.

When the effects of cards on the field that have to be placed on the field in a specific way to get a certain effect have their effects negated, they lose all 'memory' about how they were placed on the field in the first place, similar to how negating a spellcaster with spell counters on it causes it to lose all of it's spell counters and it doesn't get them back when the negation effect ends.

If you have a Barbaros/Fusilier Dragon on the field and Skill Drain is then activated or was already on the field, their ATK points will be 3000 and 2800 respectively, and they will remain that way even if Skill Drain is later removed.

If you use Forbidden Chalice on Barbaros/Fusilier Dragon, their ATK points will be 3400 and 3200 respectively(3000 + 400 = 3400 and 2800 + 400 = 3200) until the end phase, at which point their ATK points will lower to 3000 and 2800. They will NOT go back down to 1900 and 1400 because they were not resummoned to the field. Their effects are no longer negated, but the condition set on them is no longer applied.

The effects of cards like Naturia Bambooshoot and Sky Scourge Invicil will also be whiped clean as well if their effects are momentarily negated by a card like Effect Veiler.

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For more information on Skill Drain, please refer to this external guide.
Last edited by Tri Fox on Sat Aug 28, 2010 7:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2010 2:19 am
You may also want to put in there negation with things like Effect Veiler/Forbidden Chalice vs. Beast King Barbaros.

If a monster whose continuous effect requires it to be Summoned in a particular way (Beast King Barbaros, Naturia Bamboo Shoot, Gladiator Beast monsters such as Laquari or Secutor, etc.) has it's effect negated, then upon getting their effects back, it is no longer treated as being summoned in that particular way.

That's the best way I can explain it, even though I know it leaves out a lot of holes, such as a LaDD who has already negated 4 cards. When it's effect gets negated and returned, it is back at full power and can negate another 4 cards.

Maybe you can find a clear way to sum all of this up to put it in the OP?



Tri Fox wrote:In the case of Skill Drain and cards like Exiled Force, you need to recall that Skill Drain works a little differently. Skill Drain only cares where the MONSTER is, not the effect. Exiled Force's effect activates on the field, which means it's effect resolves on the field, even though Exiled Force itself is in the Graveyard. Because Exiled Force is not on the field, Skill Drain cannot negate it's effect even though Exiled Force's effect is resolving on the field.


I had an issue with this part. While the ruling is correct, the terminology is a bit off. Exiled Force does activate on the field, but it resolves in the Graveyard. Let me break down the exact sequence of events. You activate the effect. The cost to activate the effect is to tribute it. It's now in the Graveyard to pay the cost for activation. Now your guide for priority kicks in, and the opponent is given a chance to respond to the Exiled Force. Let's say your opponent does not chain to the Exiled Force, and neither do you, when priority is passed back. It now in the resolution of the effect. It was placed in the Graveyard at activation for the cost, but is in the Graveyard at resolution. That is why Skill Drain cannot hit it, because it is not on the field when the effect resolves. To say it resolves on the field is silly. That means you did not tribute him for the cost of activation, since the cost to activate it is to tribute it to the Graveyard. The effect is attached to the card, so the effect will always resolve from where the card is at resolution. In this case, the effect resolves in the Graveyard, not on the field.
Last edited by jrmsweitzer712 on Sat Aug 28, 2010 2:35 am, edited 2 times in total.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2010 2:25 am
Curse Bound Prison works like Junk Synchron and Debris Dragon. Unlike Skill Drain, they will negate any monster effect that activates on the field, even if the monster is removed from the field. They're similar to the Imprisoning Mirrors in this regard. The only time Prison/Junk/Debris won't negate the effect of their respective monsters is when the effect of their monster activates in the Graveyard. Cards like Dandylion for Debris Dragon, Tuningware for Junk Synchron, and Black Brutdrago for Curse Bound Prison.



chalice works like that too you can use it on a stardust dragon use black hole later on the same turn and star cant negate it
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2010 3:25 am
The effect is not attached to the card itself, Jrm, I said that at the start. >_>
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2010 3:33 am
And why wouldn't it be? The way I see it, the effect resolves from wherever the card is. I see no reason that the effect shouldn't be attached to the card.

Unless you can find some vague ruling somewhere that shows the effect is not connected to the card. Because I honestly do believe the effect resolves from wherever the card is at resolution. Not that it really makes any difference in how cards are ruled anyway. Unless I'm missing something here.

Also, could you update the OP to show how things like Beast King vs. Effect Veiler works? I have someone swearing up and down that his Naturia Bamboo Shoot will be able to prevent opponent's spells and traps again, after the effect of effect veiler wears off. Can you make a paragraph or something I can quote that would not only prove him wrong, but also prove any other scenarios that may occur following the same game mechanic ruling?
Last edited by jrmsweitzer712 on Sat Aug 28, 2010 3:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2010 3:35 am
'The way you see it' is incorrect. I explained why in my post.

I covered all this stuff that you're asking me to clarify. >_>

I'll drop in a Barbaros/Bamboo Shoot segment in tomorrow.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2010 3:39 am
Look, we both agree that cards activate in the place where they sit when the effect says "hey, use me". So, Honest activates in the hand. Necro Gardna activates in the Graveyard. We both agree on that. The Mirrors that you referred to look for specific activation spots, not resolution spots. In the case of Skill Drain, it looks for where the card is at resolution. I am sure we agree with everything at this point.

The thing that we are disagreeing on, however, is this. You say the resolution of the effect can be at a place other than where the physical card is. Do you have anything that supports the claim that the effect can frolic in the meadows while the card itself is sitting in the cemetery? I don't know of any cards that care about where the resolution of the effect is, but rather where the card is at resolution (such as in skill drain). I have no idea where you are getting this notion that an effect can resolve at a spot on the field completely separate from the card the effect belongs to.



Edited for clarity.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2010 7:04 pm
Updated, dawg.

"Where are you getting this idea that monster effects and card location are separate?"

That's how the game works. It's game mechanic. Curtis Schultz said so.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2010 7:11 pm
Yeah, I just read the Sticky on Pojo, and it still doesn't make sense to me, but I'll agree and withdraw my previous statement. Instead of a BKSS ruling, we have a BCSSS ruling. Go figure.

I would just like to add that Light and Darkness Dragon gets it's effect completely reset if momentarily negated by Effect Veiler as well.
Last edited by jrmsweitzer712 on Sat Aug 28, 2010 7:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2010 7:12 pm
Well if you think about it, everything about the game is BKSS.

I mean, it is Konami's game.
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